I started to breed mice when I was 10 years old. My first mice were PEW and Black tan mice.
A few years later I crossed them with red satins. Then I started to cross all colours with each other.
My first show for mice I had in 1986. In 1992 I became a member of the Netherland Mouse Club. In 2002 I became a mouse judge.
I was national champignon in 1996 with a silveragouti satin, 2003 and 2004 with a silveragouti, 2009 with a siamese sealpoint and in 2011 with a BEW.
My first very good line of mice were my silveragouti's. Later I started to breed also Siamese sealpoints, dominant red, Argente, Argente creme, Black banded, PEW, BEW, black.
At the moment I breed: Silveragouti, Siamese sealpoint, Siamese bluepoint, PEW, BEW, Black, Blue, and I have some tri-colours
I am thinking of stopping with Silveragouti.
Also I have some wild mice and F1 offspring of wild x silveragouti, wild x siamese, wild x PEW. I cross with wild once every 2 or 3 years to boost the immune system (wild mice are selected by mother nature, so they are the strongest and healthiest mice).

Les gens qui pensent en générale toujours que les hollandais s'en tape de la santé de leur souris...
Bon, après jugé si c'est bien ou pas, je suis pas sûr d'avoir assez de connaissance.

En tous cas ses références son impressionnantes

Disons qu'il a de l'expérience dans le métier !

_Banzaii. a écrit:

Disons qu'il a de l'expérience dans le métier !

Yes I remember you. You were one of the few French girls who could speak good English.

Dawww a écrit:

Puis il m'a fait un compliment sur mon anglais
J'ai envie de transférer son mail à la direction des études de mon école

Yes I remember you. You were one of the few French girls who could speak good English.

Banzaii, je la passe dans une semaine.
Et vu mon manque d'interet je vais encore foutre 189 euros en l'air

Si tu veux tout savoir c'est la certification de Cambriges dit IELTS

ça fait trop plaisir

Ah, je pensais que tu allais l'obtenir dans une semaine, j'ai pas compris que tu allais la passer !

Pour la deuxième fois. Du coup y'a même pas la curiosité. Juste l'ennui

Je viens de terminer ma réponse.
Je lui ai demander si il était possible d'avoir plus de précision sur son projet de mariage avec des souris sauvage.

Puis bon, j'ai posé d'autres questions aussi, j'espère que ça fera pas trop du coup

Au pire, tu peux toujours lui dire qu'il a le temps pour te répondre, les éleveurs n'ont généralement pas beaucoup de temps pour répondre à toutes les questions... Roland en fait partie !

Tiens nous au courant, ça m'intéresse tout ça !

I use always a wild male to cross with tame females. I that way the young mice will grow up with a tame mother and so the young will not be so wild as when they would grow up with a wild mother (and having a tame father). Even better is to put the female pregnant from the wild male togheter with a female pregnant from a tame male. They will raise the young mice togheter and the half wild young mice will be among tame young mice. In that way the half wild young mice will be more tame.

I have no papers about my wild mouse projects, but I have included a file about the life of wild house mouse which is very interesting.

Tu sais à quel pourcentage il y a du sauvage ?
Tu as une généalogie comme nous le faisons ?

But I avoid to much inbreeding. For that I buy once every 2 to 3 year a good male in England en I cross once every 2 to 3 year with a wild male. This will improve the imuunsystem and so make them more resistant to diseases.

Lee, tu te rappelles quand je t'avais demandé où finissez les invendus des éleveurs étrangers, je viens d'avoir ma réponse

Bizarrement je m'en doutais

The best mice I sell to other breeders who are interested in my mice.
The second best mice I sell to a pet shop
The rest I sell to another pet shop that sells them as food for snakes and other reptiles.

Oula, Thalie m'a dit "René donne ses invendus à ses rapaces?"
J'en sais pas plus je dois t'avouer

Je demande à Thalie si tu veux

ha bah c'est possible. Ca me gène moins qu'il les garde pour ses propres animaux que quelqu'un qui le vend comme nourriture à serpents... Pas que ca me choque outre mesure, note

Lee a écrit:

ha bah c'est possible. Ca me gène moins qu'il les garde pour ses propres animaux que quelqu'un qui le vend comme nourriture à serpents... Pas que ca me choque outre mesure, note

Inbreeding is not totally bad. For marked mice such as banded, dutch, broken, you need it to fix a good marking. But you have to be careful. Too much inbreeding will reduce fertility and will give smaller body size, ears and tail.

Inbreeding will show in the offspring hidden recessive bad genes. But if you manage to select en get rid off these genes you can make a inbred line of 40 years mating each time brothers and sisters. 40 years old inbred lines is what they use in the laboratory.



But I avoid to much inbreeding. For that I buy once every 2 to 3 year a good male in England en I cross once every 2 to 3 year with a wild male. This will improve the imuunsystem and so make them more resistant to diseases.



If you totally avoid every inbreeding you have to buy a lot of mice every year. You do not know what genes these new mice carry. So you cannot build up a stable line of mice and cannot get progress in type, colour, ears, tail etc.



But that is all my opinion. A lot of people will not agree with me.

I breed my mice in the following way:
I put a male in a cage with 2 females (usually 2 sisters of halfsisters) of at least 10 to 12 weeks old.
After 2 - 2,5 weeks, when I can see that the females are pregnant I remove the male from the cage.
The females will give birth after 3 weeks. They will put their young in one commo nest. They young mice will drink milk from both females.
When the young mice are 4 to 5 weeks old I will remove the young males from the cage. The best young male I will keep and I put it alone into a cage. In this way he cannot be damaged by other males. I will use him later for mating and showing on shows.
The young females I select between 6 and 10 weeks old, keeping the 2 best ones of the cage.
Young males that I do not need I put together in a large cage and will sell them. But when they are about 12 weeks old they usually start to fight, so I try to sell them before. The females that I do not need I also put together in a large cage.

Yes the wild male that I captured last year in May (it was then 3 or 4 weeks old) I still have and will keep it till it dies.
Once I kept 2 silver agouti males until they died, a father and son, they died after 2 years and 3 months and 2 years and 4 months.

An English researcher wrote a book about mice behaviour, he did a lot of experiments.
You should read it: Mice over all, by Peter Crowcroft. You can by it a Amazon.com.

Oui

C'est vrai que ça casse un peu le mythe comme tu dis, mais je vois difficilement comment il pourrait vendre autant de souris à des particuliers.
Ceci dit, je pense qu'il y a quand même suffisamment d'animaleries pour éviter que ces souris partent en "snake food", non ?

Merci, Dawww, pour toutes ces infos, c'est bien intéressant !

Ce que je regrette le plus finalement dans le métier d'éleveur (qui avance à bonne vitesse), c'est qu'il n'y a plus vraiment de relation avec la souris. Enfin, j'imagine qu'il n'a pas le temps de les manipuler toutes chaque jour, comme je le fais par exemple avec moins de 10 souris...

Dawww a écrit:

http://lessourisdesvilles.free.fr/dl/mouse_behaviour.pdf

Euh si, mais je n'ai pas encore eu le temps de le lire, tu avais mis le lien plus haut dans la discussion il me semble.

_Banzaii. a écrit:

Euh si, mais je n'ai pas encore eu le temps de le lire, tu avais mis le lien plus haut dans la discussion il me semble.

Trop long pour moi ce soir

Faut pas que j'oublie de le lire!

I have got my tricolours also from Ronald Fischer. He bought 2 years ago a lot of mice from me to improve his tricolours in size and type, that he imported from the USA.

I am crossing the tricolour bucks with large BEW females. I expect a F1 with not tricolours, only 50 to 100% splashed mice. I have one piebald buck with a lot of white which I got from a Dutch breeder, but I am not sure if it is fertile. I have a BEW satin female with him. I had a splashed heterozygous blackeyed siamese buck that I mated with a F1 hybrid PEW x silveragouti female. I got from her some nice stone splashed mice.
I have one litter of a tricolour x tricolour cross. In here are all tricolours, they are now 2 weeks old.

If I have I will sell tricolours in September or December, probably for € 10,- each.

Je ne comprends pas trop ta conclusion, puisqu'il dit que ses tricolores viennent de chez Roland, et non l'inverse.

Ah, je chipote, mais la virgule n'a rien à faire là, elle change tout le sens de la phrase !
Okay, là je suis d'accord !

Miss Banzaii^^

Par contre, euh non, on remplace pas buy par sell

J'ai pas trouvé le "buy" de toute façon, et remplacer le "bought" par "sell", ça aurait fait bizarre avec le "from".

Je parlais du bought, mais je suis fatiguée.
Et j'ai plus jamais à travaillé mon anglais

I breed my mice in the following way:
I put a male in a cage with 2 females (usually 2 sisters of halfsisters) of at least 10 to 12 weeks old. After 2 - 2,5 weeks, when I can see that the females are pregnant I remove the male from the cage. The females will give birth after 3 weeks. They will put their young in one commo nest. They young mice will drink milk from both females.
When the young mice are 4 to 5 weeks old I will remove the young males from the cage. The best young male I will keep and I put it alone into a cage. In this way he cannot be damaged by other males. I will use him later for mating and showing on shows.
The young females I select between 6 and 10 weeks old, keeping the 2 best ones of the cage. Young males that I do not need I put together in a large cage and will sell them. But when they are about 12 weeks old they usually start to fight, so I try to sell them before. The females that I do not need I also put together in a large cage.

Dawww a écrit:

http://lessourisdesvilles.free.fr/dl/mouse_behaviour.pdf